How AI Ethics Will Define Your Brand's Future - Guest Paul Chaney - Ep 001
Yeah. I I think AI AI use and particularly ethical AI use is not just about the technology. It is fundamental business responsibility. As I said a moment ago, AI, you can't depend on the tools. It's not the platform's jobs to be ethical.
Speaker 1:It's your job to be ethical.
Speaker 2:Welcome to AI Inclusive, where we discuss how artificial intelligence is shaping the future of business and how we can build a better and more inclusive business landscape. I'm your host, Pallavi Sharma, CMO and founder of Wit Omni AI Marketing. Today, we're driving into a critical topic, ethics and bias in AI and how it impacts the future of brand building. Our guest today is Paul Chaney, a seasoned expert in AI ethics, marketing, and the intersection of technology and human values. Paul has written extensively on these topics, and he brings a wealth of knowledge on how businesses can navigate the complex and ethical challenges of AI.
Speaker 2:So ethics and AI is more than a buzzword. Maybe maybe AI helped me write a little bit of that, so there's some funny words that come up that I I see, and I'm like as a user of AI, I'm like, okay, I wonder where that came from. But honestly, it is more than a buzzword, it's a business imperative. As companies increasingly rely on AI, you know, ensuring these systems are ethical and free from bias is going to be so essential for building a trustworthy brand. And if you look at my background, I used to manage the GE brand globally and really trust was such a core element of the brand.
Speaker 2:You lose your customers trust, you've lost everything. So, Paul, you know, has been at the forefront of these discussions. His work highlights the importance of addressing bias and maintaining transparency to build a brand that resonates with today's socially conscious consumer. Paul, can you share a bit more about your background and what drives your passion for AI ethics, particularly in the marketing sphere?
Speaker 1:Sure. As to my background, I've been doing, digital marketing. We used to call it online marketing back in the day since before Google. And if you don't know when Google was founded, you'll just have to go Google Google's founding. And, you'll see I've been around a long time, but I have done a lot of different things when it comes to marketing.
Speaker 1:I'm probably, at least in the past, was more known for my social media marketing because I had written some books on those topics and also business blogging and, that kind of thing. Right now, in the last few years, I really focused on b to b writing and editing. As to my interest in this particular topic, I have to explain that just and I'll do it as quickly as I can. I'm a big fan of a guy named Joe Pulizzi, and Joe's the guy who is they is known as the godfather of content marketing. And Joe, in the last few years, has really gotten into this whole content entrepreneur idea of driving revenue streams.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, I have my business and I do what I do day in and day out, but I was looking at ways that maybe I could add, you know, some revenue. And I tried one idea, it was a newsletter, didn't really resonate, didn't really work out. And then when chat GPT came out and I'm because I'm a geek or a nerd and I'm absolutely fascinated by these technologies, I began to really take a close look at it, began to incorporate its use in my business. And I saw a lot of people good many people talking about AI ethics and a lot of people, marketers, talking about how to use these shiny new toys. What I didn't see was anybody really talking about the intersection of the 2, how AI ethics impacts marketing's use or vice versa as the case may be.
Speaker 1:And I thought, well, you know what? Kind of going back to Joe's point about content entrepreneurship, maybe I can do something with that. And I'll be quite frank with you, I wasn't really all that excited about it, you know, at first. But I started a newsletter called the AI Marketing Ethics Digest. I was publishing every couple of weeks and it was kinda like, you know, this is kinda growing on me.
Speaker 1:And I will tell you now, after a year of doing this, I am a bit manic about it. I get on a high horse about it because I have come to the, I think, the understanding that there's great importance in doing what we do as marketers responsibly and ethically, and AI leaves a lot of room for that not to happen if we're not careful.
Speaker 2:Exactly. Here. Here. Yes. I mean, I couldn't echo that more.
Speaker 2:I I think it's so important for us as marketers who are really the voice of, I feel, the brand and the voice of the customer internally for us to take ethics very, very seriously. Often, there's a business imperative to just put something out or make something seem, you know, shinier than it is, and marketing gets pushed to do that. And I, myself, have had to be a gatekeeper and just just say, no. I'm sorry. I'm not putting my name to that.
Speaker 2:I'm not letting that go out in the world. I get it.
Speaker 1:But
Speaker 2:you want it done enough, but not
Speaker 1:You know, I I'm a I'm a big fan of Seth Godin. I called myself a Godinite. And, he wrote a what became a cult classic, I think, a book called All Marketers Are Liars, which actually talks about, you know, being authentic and trustworthiness and everything. But but, you know, you kinda snicker at that a little bit. But, you know, sometimes we do things to meet our goals and stuff.
Speaker 1:We maybe take some shortcuts or we, you know, it's marketing speak, you know, and we over promise and to deliver sometimes. So, you know, and with AI, that could be taken to a whole new level as we probably all know now.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. They'll get me started. I myself, as I'm testing out all these tools and technologies, the the amount of AI washing going on right now is just insane because I, I feel like on a daily basis, I'll try out a feature, and often it comes from a platform that's not AI needed. And I wish I could get my time back because it was such a useless exercise.
Speaker 1:Right. Right.
Speaker 2:You know? So I I completely hear you. You know, AI decisions can influence everything from consumer behavior to public trust. So getting ethics correct is critical as we're talking about. So could you give us a take on why ethical AI is so important, especially for brands looking to the future?
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I think there's several relevant factors or reasons at play here, and you've already talked about the most important one and that is brand trust. I mean, if you're a CMO or you're a marketing director or you're, you know, a global brand manager or whatever your term your title was, you know, brand trustworthiness is paramount. And I think ethical AI plays a critical role in maintaining that trust particularly for two reasons. Number 1, people are much more aware about how their data is being used and much more maybe concerned or cautious about it.
Speaker 1:And people are also becoming more aware that, you know, companies are employing the use of AI in, marketing and not just marketing but other arenas as well. And I don't know that everybody's just necessarily all excited about that. So I think that's the first factor. And speaking of the customer, you know, today's consumers expect brands to act responsibly. And you gotta line up with that.
Speaker 1:And that demands that you be transparent, that you be fair, and that you be responsible in your use of not just AI, I guess, but it certainly AI. But but then there's another thing. It's kind of the other side of the equation, and that is it's not just about responsibility. It is there's a strategic advantage, I think, that can be at play as well and that is if you lead with ethics, you become a brand differentiator in the marketplace, at least potentially. You position yourself as a leader in responsible AIUs, a leader in responsible innovation.
Speaker 1:And what's that gonna lead to? I think that can lead to long term brand value. It can lead to greater customer retention. It can lead to greater customer loyalty. But it really all circles back to trust.
Speaker 1:Yeah. What can we do to make sure our customers, our clients, whatever, trust us?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I think recently when we saw both OpenAI and Google doing their launches and then saying, hey, you're gonna be able to do all these great things and then, you know, you race back to your app and, oh, just kidding. It's, like, months months later and the feature's been rolled out. I'm still waiting for my advanced voice mode on OpenAI. I just, like, keep looking at that little eye with a circle on the top saying, advanced mode coming.
Speaker 2:And, you know, those are really amazing technologies that are being developed. So I personally don't understand why you can't just be upfront and say this is coming soon or whatnot versus Yeah. Just saying making, you know, making it seem. But are the AI racist I mean, who am I to know? The valuations of these companies right now are
Speaker 1:Yeah. I mean, why oversell? I mean and, of course, you know, these things are as dumb as they're ever gonna be. I mean, but but the potential for is mind boggling. It already is to me.
Speaker 2:It already is.
Speaker 1:I mean, my use of it is very very benign compared to somebody in a corporate or an enterprise environment where there's, you know, teams of people working on various and sundry things. I'm a solopreneur, so, you know, I just use these tools for myself. And sometimes I am amazed at what they do. And, you know, I'm perfectly happy with where things are right now. You don't have to try to impress me with and maybe, you know, it is a a competitive, you know, I mean, it's a very competitive marketplace.
Speaker 1:Everybody's trying to outdo everybody else and, you know, Meta has now outdone OpenAI and Gemini has come out with this and I don't know. It's a race Yep. Certainly. So
Speaker 2:It is.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:So let's switch gears a little bit and talk about the actual systems, because that's a whole whole another ballgame. What are some of the biggest challenges companies face when trying to eliminate bias from the AI systems themselves? As we saw earlier with Google, you know, their Right. Over indexing on the diversity side and showing historical figures that, you know, so that was kind of on a different direction.
Speaker 1:Right. And that's, yeah. And then, you know, that's that's, certainly a bit of a I mean, it's to me, it's kind of a humorous example because it's so ridiculous. But I think when, you know, you really get down to, you know, okay. We gotta deal with bias.
Speaker 1:We gotta make sure bias is not in our systems. How do you do that? Well, first of all, it's all about the data, right, and the integrity of the data. And you gotta make sure, as a marketing leader, as an IT director, whatever function you serve, you gotta make sure that data is free from bias. What does that mean?
Speaker 1:That means scrutinizing, monitoring, cleaning that data to avoid, you know, perpetuating any bias. Now how that's done, I don't know. I'm not a data scientist. We we
Speaker 2:have another guest coming on, soon to discuss that in more detail.
Speaker 1:Well, then they can handle that question, how you do it, but that's where you gotta do it. That's where it starts. And I'm gonna use 2 words that are they're buzz buzzwords, but they're almost actually like cliches. And that is transparency and accountability. And I and I can hear the collective groan like, oh, you know.
Speaker 1:But listen, we have to champion transparency. People have to know that what we do in the decision making processes of how we're using AI in a marketing perspective or another perspective that is on the level, it's understandable, it's fair. That is how we engender trust. Transparency and trust are are are conjoined twins in it.
Speaker 2:And, you know, those those topics are just should be a foundation of business, AI or no AI.
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely. Well, back in the early blogging days, I always use the, well, I use the term transparency, but I said transparency and authenticity. Mhmm. You know, because I felt like blogging was the last form of honest advertising. It ceased to be that.
Speaker 1:But transparency and accountability, being responsible, but also data privacy and security. Now that is an IT function primarily. Right? You gotta make sure your data is firewalled. It's locked down so that it is not gonna be subject to any kind of data breaches or or hacking or attacks or or anything like that.
Speaker 1:And, obviously, you've also gotta comply with regulatory, you know, entities and things like GDPR and all you know, was it CCPA and stuff. But I think too, it comes down to let's make sure we're also balancing our innovation, our use of AI with ethics. And that just is a principle that we have to adhere to, and that means no shortcuts. We've got to assure ensure that the drive for innovation is not we have ethical standards in place about how we handle AI systems, particularly where it concern concerns the customer and concern customer interaction. And let me just say this too.
Speaker 1:You cannot leave it up to the tools of the platforms to decide what responsible use is. Now that's not to say that some of these platform developers aren't, you know, build building in some ethical, you you know, requirements or whatever the term might be. Some are, but, you know, you're I put it this way. AI isn't ethical. You are ethical.
Speaker 1:You are human. You have values. You have ethics. The AI doesn't necessarily. So the onus is on you to make sure that responsible use is it's up to you.
Speaker 1:I'll I'll put it that way.
Speaker 2:Yeah. We could not agree more. There's a lot of people that this podcast intended for who are entrepreneurs or thinking of starting a company or, you know, on their way to scaling a company and temptation. Even if it isn't intentional, but it's just to not prioritize some of these things, Believe you me, these things can come back to bite you. Like, it could take your company down if you are not incorporating these types of things into your practices as you build your company.
Speaker 2:And, you know, I've I've seen it first hand. I've seen deals go down. I've seen stuff where because people did not take the precaution upfront, the end was not what they had hoped for, the exit. So, you know,
Speaker 1:it's just
Speaker 2:so critical.
Speaker 1:Well and I think, you know, the technology could I mean, there's this rush. Like, I think about what's going on in the Bay Area right now. It's just crazy. And one of my acquaintances, I'll I'll call him a friend. His name is Jeremiah Hayang.
Speaker 1:He's putting together these meetups, and there's 100 of people showing up. Yeah. And and, you know, it's just this mad rush to, again, outdo one another and come up with the the shiny newest thing or the latest, you know, mouse trap, whatever. And, we can't let the technology get ahead of our responsible use of it. So we gotta be sure that we're we're staying on top of that.
Speaker 2:Do you, have any examples you can share where bias in AI led to a brand impact, positive or negative?
Speaker 1:Yeah. I I think a couple. 1 well, the negative one is not such a specific example. I have a better one for the positive, but, you know, there was a whole bunch of it was, like, maybe 2 or 3 years ago, the facial recognition technology was, there was a lot of bias against people of color, against women. I read stories about people being arrested who weren't the guilty party because facial recognition mistook them.
Speaker 1:You know? And I could imagine even maybe, you know, the governmental levels of, things like that, there might be some misuse of it. And it led
Speaker 2:to,
Speaker 1:you know, a great deal of backlash. Right? There was damaged reputations. There was regulatory scrutiny. So I think that's one sort of classic example.
Speaker 1:On the positive side, and and maybe this doesn't have so much to do with bias, but maybe it does. Airbnb has utilized AI to enhance its services. They use predictive, search and predictive, algorithms, regarding pricing to make sure that, users get more personalized competitive booking recommendations. Now I don't know how much they know about me, but I know the other day when I was looking at some Airbnb listings, it was like, these prices seem a little high to me, so maybe they need to adjust their algorithm a little bit to accommodate Paul Cheney. But there is a use that they have that I I'm gonna argue on the side of it being positive, but I think you could argue on the negative side as well.
Speaker 1:They're also using AI to profile customers to assess guest trustworthiness. Now on the positive side, they wanna make sure that their hosts are protected and safe. And so I can understand it from that standpoint, but we're talking about profiling and using AI to profile. So is there a chance that bias could leak into that? Then maybe so.
Speaker 1:I don't know. But I think the bottom line here, the takeaway really is addressing bias proactively can prevent reputational damage. It can enhance brand value. It can keep you out of trouble, you know, with the regulatory bodies, etcetera.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I mean, when we were I'm as a marketer, most of my work is, yeah, they're technology companies, but when we started chatting about this particular topic, you know, the the profiling, that's a serious consideration, especially as AI applications get, you know, deployed more in government or leasing or, you know, things like that. So right now, I I don't know. Things are being scrutinized to that same level because we're just in I feel we're just in that honeymoon period still with AI
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah.
Speaker 2:Entering the trough soon, sounds like, if you look at the stock market.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm still up there in the hype cycle because I love this stuff, and I use it every day all the time. I'm just completely amazed that that, you know, maybe I'm easily impressed, but I'm not down in the trough yet. I mean They're
Speaker 2:not yet.
Speaker 1:Big companies are, but not not little old me.
Speaker 2:So let's switch gears now and let's look to the future because part of this podcast really as, you know, as the guests I'm selecting to come on to the podcast and the the guests or the the audience that I hope to achieve, it's really people who are interested in building a better landscape for all of us, better business landscape. And by that, eventually, you know, better life, etcetera, etcetera. So let's imagine a future, you know, where AI is fully ethical and free of bias. What does that look like for brands, and how do you see it reshaping the business landscape if we do it right?
Speaker 1:And I see that, you know, that movie effect where the it it morphs into the future or whatever. And I hear strains of we are the world. No. I'm kidding. Sorry about that.
Speaker 1:You know, by the way, the word landscape, I absolutely do not use that because that is one of Chatt GPT's favorite words along with delve. That's another one.
Speaker 2:So landscape was my word, but delve definitely. I'm like, where does
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Did this word suddenly come from? And it likes to dive into everything all the time. A buzzword I've already made fun of, and yeah.
Speaker 1:Right. Well, I'm gonna one day, I'm gonna sit down and put put together a little guide about, you know, things to look for when you're, using chat g p t, like, you know, for writing, particularly. You know, some of the things that it's gonna default to, and you've gotta be able to, you know, get your way
Speaker 2:When I'm using it to write, I actually ask it. Don't use cliches that you tend to use such as, and then I'll give it a list of words.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's a good that's good. Yeah. Well, you know, it is it is better prompts. You get better results. So what does this futurescape look like?
Speaker 1:I I think it looks like this. And and I just this may seem pie in the sky, but, we'll go for it.
Speaker 2:No. That's what we're
Speaker 1:doing. Brands. I think brands would make fair and equitable decisions by default, which means more inclusivity, you know, diversity, all of that in its products and services. I think we think about, for example, environmental sustainability, which let's face it, the use of AI because of the enormous amounts of energy and I guess carbon, whatever it uses, right, there is an impact environmentally, but let's just think of the concept of environmental sustainability today. That's just a thing.
Speaker 1:Right? We all think about environmental sustainability. Well, I think that in this perfect world we're imagining or envisioning, there is this sense of ethical sustainability, responsible innovation where that's just the thing. It's the norm. It is a standard expectation.
Speaker 1:It is not an afterthought. Right? I think that's what we're talking about. We're talking about fair, equitable. We're talking about driving sustainable, long term growth.
Speaker 1:And we're talking about honestly, we're talking about just doing the right thing because it's the right thing.
Speaker 2:Just do the right thing, damn it.
Speaker 1:That's it. It's the right thing. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Why is that
Speaker 1:so hard? I'm Gumby. Damn it. Damn it. Now, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:Saturday not live back in the day. Yeah. You just never know where my mind's gonna go. I haven't had enough coffee. Actually, I'm not drinking coffee anymore.
Speaker 1:I'm drinking tea now, and I don't think it has the same effect. But I think that's what I'm talking about. We're talking about something that's just people could trust, and they don't question it because they just know it's gonna be done right. Because we are, as companies, putting their best interests first.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Exactly. And in terms of the environment question, I sometimes wonder when I'm using these tools, it gives me so much information that I didn't ask for. I have to constantly tell it, be it the same, be it the same. I wonder what a waste of energy that is and why they they choose to give such enormous amounts of output.
Speaker 2:I don't
Speaker 1:know. Right.
Speaker 2:So what broader societal changes might we see if more companies adopt ethical AI practices, do you think?
Speaker 1:You know, I wanna step back for just a minute and and let's just talk about what do we mean by ethics. I mean, that is the name of the newsletter. It's the marketing ethics. You know, and I and I went to the dictionary, not Chad GpT. I actually went to the dictionary.
Speaker 1:And the simple definition is standards of right or wrong right and wrong. It's moral principles. Now you gotta ask, well, whose morals are we talking about? But I think universal standards of right or wrong, you know, that's what we're talking about when we think about ethics. And as it applies at a more broad societal level, I think it's a couple of things.
Speaker 1:I think it's a reduction in discrimination. You think about hiring discrimination. You think about lending discrimination. Maybe I'm a, you know, I'm wanting to buy a house. Health care, maybe discrimination.
Speaker 1:We're talking about just contributing to a more just and equitable society to be sort of repeating myself. We're also talking about, increasing consumer or public trust in what technology has to offer. I don't know. I think there's a bit of skepticism about that. Maybe there always has been, you know.
Speaker 1:When you have new things, it takes a while for people to accept them. And I get I go back to again what I said just a moment ago. Ethics and ethical AI as the norm. It is just how we do things. It's not, again, an afterthought or the exception.
Speaker 2:I hear hear. I have a feeling your slip stack is gonna blow up because I think with AI, the focus is entirely on the new tech, and every day, there's some mind blowing app that seems to come out. It's genuinely, like, o o m g. It's the ethics part. You know?
Speaker 2:It's it's not there yet in
Speaker 1:the It's not. And
Speaker 2:let me speak to them just
Speaker 1:exactly yeah. I think 2025 is the year, I'm hoping. I mean and, you know, when I jumped into this fray and talking about this, nobody else was that's one of the reasons I chose this. Nobody else was talking about it. There was not one news I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:I'm getting on my high horse. There's not one newsletter out there talking about AI marketing ethics. Right? And I just said, there's room for that conversation to be had, and maybe we marketers don't so much care about it right now, but we need to. And, you know, maybe I'm like, the movie Pinocchio, you know, the Jiminy Cricket, the the little conscience of Pinocchio or something tapping you on the shoulders saying, are you doing this ethically?
Speaker 1:You know, whatever. But, yeah. It's not there yet, but it's coming.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I hear you. You know? So when I launched my business and this podcast, that's exactly the way I also approached it. I'm like, what are the things that are important to me?
Speaker 2:I was getting just increasingly obsessed with AI. I've been a marketer for so many years, so I love discussing business growth and entrepreneurship. And then as a woman of color, you know, just just Google what it's like for us out there and, you know, and so the inclusivity part. And so I was like, okay. That's it.
Speaker 2:That's that's it. That's the intersection of those three things and that's my world that we're gonna live in right now.
Speaker 1:Well, I look at it and and you hope I hope you don't mind me sort of diverging for a moment. I look at it the way I used to believe about social media. I mean, I was I believe that social media was the great level or the great common ground where we could come together and we could talk and we could interface where companies and brands could sit down with their customers and have a dialogue. And and it was fair and equitable, of course, we know what happened with it because, I guess, human nature is so freaking toxic. We can't help but let that work its way in and I became a bit,
Speaker 2:just in general. You really feel? How do you really feel about the human race?
Speaker 1:I absolutely will. Well, again, and you're probably gonna edit this out. It's fine. You have that privilege. I
Speaker 2:think so.
Speaker 1:But I I put it this way, there was a song written back in the eighties that most people don't even know about, and and the chorus said this, you can show me your sales curve. You can plot my life on your flowchart. That's kind of behavioral marketing. Right? But there's just some things that numbers can't measure, matters of the heart.
Speaker 1:And I always believed, well, I used to, social media was a matter of the heart kind of way of communicating with people. And in that respect, I felt like it could contribute to a more just and equitable society. Well, okay. We see what happened. Well, I feel like and I'm an idealist.
Speaker 1:I mean, I am, you know, card carrying. I feel like AI has that potential if we don't screw it up. And you know what? Palvi, marketers will screw it up if we if if we let it If
Speaker 2:we let it. If we let it. Don't
Speaker 1:worry. We will because we have these agendas and it's profit before principle. And I'm sorry, but that's just not what this is all about. And that's maybe that's why I've camped on this more than anything. It was just sort of in the back of my mind or my heart, and it finally just came to the fore.
Speaker 1:Okay. I'll stop preaching now. We'll take up an offering
Speaker 2:at the end of every sermon. Every time I, you know, have conversations where it sounds like and obviously, from a business perspective right now, we're in the mode where AI is really about cost saving, time saving. That's where the focus is currently, and then, you know, eventually, it'll get into to more revenue growth. But, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:By the way, I hope your guest that. I hope your guest don't mind that I am not a very corporate kind of person No. Polished. I get all
Speaker 2:The people that I'm, like, interacting with right now in the AI community, the people that they're like really real. I think everyone's so so I was actually gonna say to you, I've been having a lot of conversations with people, and people are so burnt out by our current system, they are just done. And so I think that there is gonna be kind of a white color revolution, if you will, where people are like, yeah, we are not gonna stand for these old systems anymore.
Speaker 1:Right. Well
Speaker 2:And so there's just increasingly, I feel, kind of an outcry to say, hey, we are human beings, we are not robots. Women have to go through certain things in order to give birth and bring life and make sure that life survives. So let's stop making them pretend that like they are men. There's so many changes that have to happen even beyond that. Right?
Speaker 2:And so I just have a sense that people are really, really done with the the current system. So I I think there's a good change.
Speaker 1:I think there is that it's a discussion right now, right, of, what is the role AI and technology and these machines play, and then what is the role, humans play, and is there room for both? And, you know, maybe there'll be a sort of anti technology movement or something. But, anyway, that's a topic for another day.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Well, no. What what I was saying earlier is that with AI, you know, if we just let it be another productivity tool, boy, have we missed the mark with this thing. You know? So
Speaker 1:It is almost to to do an injustice to call what we're seeing, you know, evolving a just a tool.
Speaker 2:Yep. I
Speaker 1:just there's so much more. I mean, if you listen to what's his name? Mustafa Suleiman's, TED Talk, you you just sit back and go, oh my god. What's coming is so phenomenal.
Speaker 2:It's it's insane. Yep. Alright. So what are the critical steps businesses need to take now to move for toward this ideal future? Can you give us some, like, pragmatic steps that folks listening to this podcast can implement starting today?
Speaker 1:Yeah. I certainly can. I wanna go back to the marketing arena primarily, although not exclusively. I think the first step that, marketing folks ought to take is to embed ethics in your marketing strategy. It is a core value.
Speaker 1:It is, you know, just not again, not an afterthought. It is part and parcel of of any campaign you create, anything like that you do. Ethics are embedded in those strategies. And, I think that's the first thing, that's underlying. I think also, and this is broader than just marketing, but it involves marketing, is establish an AI ethics council that has stakeholders that represent various branches of your or departments in your your company.
Speaker 1:And along with that, establish a code of ethics or ethics policy that governs your use. And and in that respect, not so much the council, marketing should be a part of the council. But I think there is room for marketing to have its own version of that ethics policy because of the unique relationship that marketing has with consumers or customers. And it's different, obviously, than HR or IT or any of the others. Right?
Speaker 1:And so I think there's room for marketing to have its own unique kind of policy. I think also training is a is a very pragmatic thing. You need to train your team on how you're gonna use AI ethics and and what those principles represent and help them understand the fundamentals of it so everybody can be on the same page. And I think another thing that you've got to do is maintain human oversight. AI can automate all kinds of things as we well know, but I think there's room for human judgment and intervention.
Speaker 1:That's the only way you can safeguard this, you know, not going crazy. And like a friend of mine says, AI generates, these LLMs generate, but humans publish. So there has to be that human in the loop. And I and and, you know also, I think you've gotta be a champion. You've gotta advocate for for these things, you know, in your organization.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Those are great tips, and they don't, you know, they don't only apply to entrepreneurs. If you're listening to this podcast or watching it on YouTube, this applies to and it goes beyond marketers. Right? Just make it foundational, but really for marketers, you can be the champion within your company because, you know, you're That's right.
Speaker 2:You're you're kind of the you're the brand ambassador, if you will. And so making sure that these things are incorporated from the start is gonna ensure the easiest path versus waiting. So making them foundational is so critical. So this has been such a wonderful discussion. I just wanted to ask you if you had any final words of encouragement for those looking to make a positive impact with AI.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I I think AI use and particularly ethical AI use, is not just about the technology. It is a fundamental business responsibility. As I said a moment ago, you can't depend on the tools. It's not the platform's jobs to be ethical.
Speaker 1:It's your job to be ethical. The LLMs, unless they're some platform developers built in, you know, ethical values or moral principles or whatever, you know, L and Ms don't have ethics. People do. And that's even true of some marketers, I understand. So it's incumbent upon us to put responsible use on the front burner.
Speaker 1:I think that is absolutely fundamental. You know, I think from a competitive advantage standpoint, if you put this out front, you say we're being ethical in our approach and we're being transparent in our approach. We're doing things like giving you letting you know how it's being used in our terms of service, aren't some 14 page long, you know, legal document. It's easier to understand. And, oh, by the way, you get the privilege of opting out and not only opting out, but but consenting to you.
Speaker 1:So I think that's certainly something. But it goes back to this is just the right thing to do. If you care about your customers at all, this is the right thing to do. Now, technically, start by auditing your systems to make sure that you identify and address any bias that may already be there. Develop those ethical codes of conduct or ethical policies.
Speaker 1:And even more than that, maybe this is a bit philosophical or exits I can't say the word Existential. Existential. Thank you very much. Create a culture Mhmm. In your company where an ethical approach to AI isn't is isn't an afterthought.
Speaker 1:It's a core principle. It's a core value.
Speaker 2:Culture. That is
Speaker 1:so critical. Culture.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Absolutely. You have to have your culture nailed down at your company or it's gonna run them off
Speaker 1:the wall. Time and it takes training and it takes this I love this old adage. Tell them what you're gonna tell them. Tell them tell them again. Tell them what you told them.
Speaker 1:You gotta keep coming back Yeah. To it. It's gotta be a drumbeat until it becomes a heartbeat.
Speaker 2:And you're I
Speaker 1:like that. I'm gonna use that.
Speaker 2:That's a
Speaker 1:good That's good. That's good
Speaker 2:to use that. And it's gotta come from senior leadership. I'm sorry. It has to come with senior leadership. It does.
Speaker 2:If your senior leaders if you're at a, you know, company and your senior leaders are not what you would consider ethical, ideal, get out of that company. Don't don't stay there because you it will come back to it. You know, it starts from the top. I wish it were not all, you know, that black and white, but I think it is. Alright.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you for tuning in. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe, leave us a comment or 2, and let us know in the comments what you would like to explore in the future. Thank you again, Paul, for sharing your insights. This has just been such a wonderful discussion. You're one of the first people as I started getting more active in the AI community that I interacted with.
Speaker 2:You've been such a supporter as I go along the go along and build up this business and also this vision for an inclusive future. And I really, really thank you for that.
Speaker 1:Well, what what you're doing with your approach to marketing and incorporating AI, I find just just very fascinating and you're certainly, I'm gonna use this cliche, you're on the cutting edge or leading edge of this, and I'm anxious to see where this goes for you.
Speaker 2:So Awesome. Thank you so much. Congratulations. I'm happy to have you on the journey with me.